Listened: Ray Ison and Ed Straw, "The Hidden Power of Systems Thinking: Governance in a Climate Emergency".
Enjoyed this interview. Sounds like a good book.
In a nutshell – politics is failing our home, the biosphere, massively. The biosphere and climate change needs to be at the centre of governance. Systems thinking is a means to do this.
https://newbooksnetwork.com/the-hidden-power-of-systems-thinking
@neil but what is systems thinking 😀